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    I am not being sarcastic when I say that to say the BMC are wrong and you are right is a perfectly arguable position. Perhaps you should post on the BMC website to that effect – maybe you will.
    You imply that circa 40000 people have been killed by covoid. In fact 35000 have died with Covid not necessarily of it.
    Of course covoid isn’t the same as driving a car but that doesn’t mean a comparison is invalid. If everyone who was killed over a year in car crashes died on a single day , then that would be newsworthy and would cause an outcry. The fact that it happens undramatically day by day means it goes almost unnoticed. This distorts our statistical analysis and hence our risk assessments. But it is simply the case that over any reasonable time span, car crashes will cause many many more deaths and terrible injuries than covoid. Should we stop using cars purely for our own pleasure when it could kill other people – of course not. Should we stop going to crags (which is probably only marginally more “dangerous” than going for a country walk) purely for our own pleasure – I have the humility to say I don’t know.

    John – a close reading of your post clearly indicates that you do JUDGE it wrong to be climbing (as does Andy) in spite of your protestations to the contrary.
    It would be much more straightforward to simply say so. It is a perfectly valid position.

    My position on all this is very boring . I’m a “don’t know” fence sitter! The only reason that I am posting at all is just to counterbalance (playing the devil’s advocate) the opinions of more influential club members.

    This sort of discussion (like Brexit) can get emotional. Not good.
    Being on the fence like me sounds painful but it is a comfortable place to be.

    We are all friends and colleagues and I want to keep it that way so I would like to stop posting on the subject. That sounds like getting in the last word and then running away- sorry!

    Love to you all


    Bravo, Loch.

    It’s been an interesting day in which we have explored most of the corners.

    Plenty of food for thought


    Matthew D

    Throughout my life I have come to the realisation that I am by nature standoffish, shy, and a bit unapproachable at times. Turns out I was right all along… Anyhow lots of interesting stuff being discussed here. On the subject of climbing or not, I’m taking the fifth. Everyone be sensible, don’t go out of your way to antagonise people or virtue signal to excess. And for heavens sake don’t end up needing to go to A&E wearing a YMC t shirt.


    I said that I wouldn’t post on this thread anymore. I am only disobeying my own rule to thank Andrew for his friendly comment.

    We are all friends or colleagues and I am a sentimental old fart.



    I blame the Tories

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